machshefa: (tree pose)
machshefa ([personal profile] machshefa) wrote2011-08-28 08:12 pm
Entry tags:

Navel Gazing

What follows is my attempt to make sense of some currently shapeless thoughts and feelings by thinking 'out loud', so to speak. Feel free to skip the navel gazing and wandering in circles and go right to the questions at the end. I'd LOVE to have lots and lots of discussion here if people are interested in the topic. Or, skip the whole thing and enjoy your evening. :)


So, I'm beginning to detect a pattern.

I finish a big story (this time, my SSHG Exchange Story), dip my toe back into reading other people's words, and, inevitably, begin to wonder about why I do this writing thing, anyway. I wonder what compels me to spend hours and hours each week struggling with images and voices and story, especially when there is no lack of absolutely brilliant stuff out there already (and being posted all the time). When I'm in the middle of a story, every spare block of time is mentally given over to writing. It's difficult for me to put it aside and do other things that need doing. When a story is finished, it feels odd to not have the story pulling at my attention and filling my schedule.

I never planned to write fiction. I've never taken a writing class or pursued creative writing in any structured fashion. In fact, I don't think I ever wrote a story until four years ago. I do remember having vague notions of one day writing SF/F when I was a kid. Not that I had a specific story to tell, mind you. I just remember that powerful desire to be able to DO what my favorite writers could do. (To transport, to emotionally move the reader in some important way, to transform. Oh, man. How egocentric is that? Argh.)

The desire faded in the face of my academic ambitions and clinical training and never really emerged again until I got poked to write a story instead of doing (mediocre) art (that was decidedly not going well) for an exchange.

So what's the issue? Well. Hmm. First is the 'why?'

I still don't really understand why I write, and am aggravated that there is still a very old voice that insists I am either BIG or SMALL and taunts me with my shortcomings as a writer. Of course, that voice also taunts me about all manner of shortcomings. It's not unique to writing. But writing is my hobby, not something I must do. Not like parenting or work or keeping my life and family basically on track.

Until I began to read in the Sherlock fandom, I had never, ever written a story that wasn't spurred by a prompt. Mostly I wrote for exchanges and fests, or at least began a story in response to some sort of structured request. I was relieved to be reading without also writing in my shiny new fandom. It was pure pleasure to read and not have any internal voice comparing my work to what I was enjoying from others.

Imagine my surprise when Sherlock's voice began whispering in my ear. Voice and a story (and a title) had never arrived in my head this way, basically fully formed. It was fascinating to me, and did make the experience of writing that series different. It felt less like trying to make the story happen and more like being a conduit to something outside of myself or, perhaps, deeper inside myself. I'm not sure.

So, then, I wonder whether my writing is more about self-expression or communication. I wonder how much audience matters. I consider what it would feel like if everything I wrote was seen only by me or perhaps by my closest writing friends.

As the 'why' sits and spins, I come to the 'how?' One of the most interesting parts of fandom for me has been observing the range of styles and approaches to storytelling. I've learned so much over the last few years and become very familiar with my own strengths and weaknesses.

I'm aware that learning to write and to tell a compelling story is developmental. Everybody learns and grows and hones their craft. I get this. I'm okay with this. I know that some writers I adore have been writing for decades. I know that many writers I adore have always considered themselves writers, always felt the urge and need to tell a story and to shape words into worlds and transport their readers there. I'm a baby (okay, maybe a preschooler) compared to those writers. :)

There are a number of writers in the Sherlock fandom and in HP whose stories I'll read and then think, "I'll never write again. Why bother?" It's not self-flagellation or a cry for reassurance. It's a measure of the way the story moves me, of the magic in the style, to the way those stories make me think or how they define the characters in ways that transform my understanding of the characters and myself.

There are stories and storytellers who cast such long shadows because of the power of their work that it feels self-indulgent to try to reach for those same heights. This makes me contemplate the way stories impact me (and others, I imagine). It makes me think about how transformative stories are and how much they change me and always have.

Words. Powerful things, words. I use them in my work. I hear them in all their cacophony and melody. In a clinical setting, I need to be able to join with people through their words (and other ways of showing me what is going on under the surface). I need to recognize the rhythms and, often, help people to change them. I can do this (well enough, usually) face to face with people. I hope I can sometimes do this in a story, but I don't think I do it consistently enough. Not powerfully enough. Just not enough.

I did warn you that this was a whole lot of navel gazing.

*rereads what I've written

Oh.

It's all about identity for me.

Big surprise. It's always all about identity (for me). ;)


So. Why do you write?

How did you learn to write? What do you feel you're still learning to do?

How much is your identity wrapped up in your writing and storytelling?

How much does audience play into what you do and how you do it?

What makes certain stories shine (yours or others) in your eyes? What do you look for in a story? What draws you to read certain stories or certain writers?

Does anybody else get this crash after finishing a big or otherwise important (to you) story? Does anybody know why it happens? LOL

Does anybody else wonder why they do this and feel like they've just ripped off their skin and are waiting for the world's approval/approvation/rejection/indifference every time they post something?

Just wondering. ;)

[identity profile] thisprettywren.livejournal.com 2011-08-29 01:28 am (UTC)(link)
Oh, this post is so perfectly-timed; I've been doing some navel-gazing of my own lately, ha. Oh dear.

I absolutely believe in the post-story crash. I get it with long stories AND short ones - usually if there's any sort of emotional investment in it whatsoever.

I'm in grad school for not-writing right now, though I have done a bit of creative writing in a formal setting and actually have a book of poetry that was published a few years ago. (What I write outside of fandom is very different from what I write inside of it, ha.) I realized a year or so ago that the reason I wanted to go into academia isn't because I actually want to go into academia, but because that seemed like the closest I could get to being paid to write.

I don't think we really need any justification to write, do we? We write because we can (or have to), or because we can't see ourselves doing anything else. That's part of what I love about it. :D

[identity profile] sabrebabe.livejournal.com 2011-08-29 01:32 am (UTC)(link)
Well, I don't write, but I am always making something, whether I am drawing, painting, scuplting, crocheting, knitting, emroidering, sewing, spinning, fixing parts of my house... you get the idea.

MIne is a compulsion, not unlike OCD. I am completely incapable of *not* making something. Oh, I can go without making something for a week or so, back in the days when we still had televison. I would literally obsess over one or two shows and saturate myself with them, but inevitabley, I would find my that I couldn't sit still and have to make something while I was watching the idiot box. With the tv gone these last few years, I have been making things at an alarming rate. The fun part is trying to sit at the computer desk and read fanfic while I'm trying to spin yarn on the spinning wheel. It's... tricky, but can be done. :D

The sad part is, I don't wrap my identity up in them (except for a few art pieces that I spent a lot of time and deliberate effort on for, like Exchange pieces) because I have been crushed when I didn't ge the support or approval I expected from my surrounding family and friends as a child. It was just Something I Did All the Time and it was simply brushed off. So I learned to disassociate myself from the majority of stuff I make. But I still make things. And I am embarrassed to say I have several plastic storage bins full of things I've made that have never sold anywhere, but I can't throw them away, so I squirreled them away. :P

Although, I think I'll dig up the big basket of crocheted fruit and vegetables for the grandsons to play with. I think they'll appreciate them more than the dust bunnies.

[identity profile] machshefa.livejournal.com 2011-08-29 01:59 am (UTC)(link)
Ah, well-timed navel gazing ftw. :)

I agree that we don't need any justification to write. I'm just wondering out loud why I do it. I also have written (and published) outside of fandom and it's completely different for me, too. It's a different urge, a different need, and certainly a different audience. :)

The need to write is something I've only recently acquired, and at times like this -- lulls between stories, moments when I can step back and look at what I'm doing -- I wonder about it. Where did it come from? What does it do for me? With me? Is it about self-expression or about wanting to impact others?

*continues to navel gaze, apparently ;)

[identity profile] machshefa.livejournal.com 2011-08-29 02:01 am (UTC)(link)
It makes me so sad that your family didn't admire and appreciate what you created. I've seen your work and it's incredible. I realize that you don't do it for the appreciation or admiration. You do it because you must.

I hope that fandom has given you back some of what you missed out on growing up. People who appreciate and value what you create. :)

I'm betting the grandsons will adore the crocheted fruit and veggies! *grins

[identity profile] irishredlass69.livejournal.com 2011-08-29 02:12 am (UTC)(link)
I first started writing as an adolescent way of self expression. There was a lot bottled up warring to get out so, I wrote poetry. It allowed me to disassociate from my feelings. I could pour them out on paper and they were no longer mine. I have notebook full of poems.

What floored me is when I screwed up the courage to submit some of my scribblings and found people actually liked what I had to say. I have had poetry published. This was not done under my real name because my family would not appreciate me even remotely "airing the dirty laundry."

I did not get into fan fiction until about five years ago and I have never had a burning desire to write original fiction.

[identity profile] drinkingcocoa.livejournal.com 2011-08-29 02:14 am (UTC)(link)
The first several answers I thought of to your questions were shameful and self-revealing, but I'll try to answer honestly. There's a ton of my identity wrapped up in my writing. That's why I specialize in heavily defended writing, arguments with evidence, appeals to universal and hopefully undeniable truths. There are times when I cannot write at all because I don't think I can survive having the writing be judged without feeling like I live or die by that judgment.

I write to win an ancient argument about my right to exist and to defend the legitimacy of my hunger for love. Part of why I don't feel much pull toward writing fiction is that nonfiction does this job more directly for me. Point of view, characterization, dialect...all that feels like a lot of work just to prove a point. I guess those things don't sound like fun to me, though I know they're tremendously fun for some people, or they are the point for some people. So my reasons for writing are quite different from my reasons for glorying in other people's fiction.

I like reaching for truth. I think that's a worthwhile and noble pursuit for a being and I think writing is one worthwhile way to engage in it and have something recorded so the experience can be shared and repeated.

I'm drawn to authors and stories that are reaching for truth. I like stories that make my brain light up with new connections that feel instantly right; that's a thrill. I like stories that make repairs and grant mercy and justify love, and authors who write as though these things are important. I like reading stories through which authors have worked through their own transformations and exerted themselves so I can come along and feel those changes, too. I'd rather read a less technically skilled writer who can do these things than a superb technician whose themes don't speak to me.

TBC.

[identity profile] droxy.livejournal.com 2011-08-29 02:40 am (UTC)(link)
I will classify what I do as fandom. I moderate, organize, i sew, i "model", i act, I make fan art, and occassionally write. Like you this is my hobby. If all ended tomorrow, I can walk away with my idenity in tact. Why? My hobbies change as I do, my interests shift like sand dunes in the wind.

I use to motorcycle a lot more. It was a hobby. I fixed up my bike, I traveled to places as an exuse to ride the bike. This doesnt involve an audience, yet motorcycling and fandom give me pleasure.

In fandom audience or "community service" come into more play, it is the nature of this particular beast.

I do not "crash" after a big project. I feel accomplishement, and sometimes relief. WHat happens to me is I sometimes crash after a convention. I think it is a drop in adrenalin, and missing my friends. It's also coming off busy schedule for work and heading into busy schedule for con. =)

I know exactly why I do what I do. It doesnt feel like I ripped my skin off. However, I hope that in what I do, that I do it justice.

Those voices are simply your muse or imagination. Most alternative fandoms do not offer me the flexibility potter does. These newere fandoms are tv or movie base. The creative imagery is alreadty established and the expectation is mimicry of the illusion. It's not mine, I find reproduction dull. Writers don't have the vsual constraint.

I dont write, not because i dislike writing. I dislike typing. My typing only gets worse too, I discover. I type all day, and I found that if I continue typing as my hobby I begin to hate it. It does not give me joy. I wait for the day until a truely functional voice interface exists, then I will get back to story telling (not typing).



[identity profile] machshefa.livejournal.com 2011-08-29 02:52 am (UTC)(link)
Self-expression. Beautiful. Isn't it nice when you show your work to an audience and they get it? *happy sigh

*hugs

[identity profile] irishredlass69.livejournal.com 2011-08-29 02:55 am (UTC)(link)
Yes, it is a wonderful feeling for the most part. I did go through a time though where I took it too far and I felt nothing. I could write of pain, longing, heartache and fear; but when I looked inward I felt nothing... that was a frightening experience. To realize I had worked so hard to purge my mind of everything that there was nothing left.

After I went to college and escaped my families influence therapy became my friend.

[identity profile] machshefa.livejournal.com 2011-08-29 02:55 am (UTC)(link)
Shameful and self-revealing? What is this? Haz no familiarity with such things. ;)

*hugs you

The ancient argument about your right to exist and the legitimacy of your hunger for love. Oh, yes. I get that.

Reaching for truth. This also resonates. New connections, repairs, mercy, love... Yes! It's the transformations that do it for me, too. Maybe the personal transformation of the author as shown through the writing is part of the power. Maybe that's why sometimes a technically skilled piece doesn't resonate and a less skilled one can be more powerful, emotionally.

I know that when I first started writing, I was terrified of my own words and feelings. I took forever to say anything b/c I was probably afraid of exposing myself, emotionally, and also of being criticized for doing "it" (whatever the heck "it" is) wrong. Finding that balance between learning the technical skills and finding the unconscious and emotional flow has been challenging for me...

*eager to see more thinky thoughts from you :)

[identity profile] machshefa.livejournal.com 2011-08-29 02:58 am (UTC)(link)
I shouldn't be surprised that my writing identity has become intertwined with other aspects of my identity. Whatever I do, I do with my whole self. You do, too. That's really clear from watching you. :) Maybe the difference with me is that performance anxiety and the old wishes about who I want to be in the world get stirred up with writing just like they used to with other parts of my life.

Maybe it has to do with being a beginner at something.

Hm.

I take it you don't like "Dragon Speaking Naturally" as a voice to text interface?

[identity profile] machshefa.livejournal.com 2011-08-29 03:00 am (UTC)(link)
Interesting. I can see how it might temporarily come to replace feeling itself. And then, inside, you feel empty. Finding that again is its own journey.

*hugs

[identity profile] drinkingcocoa.livejournal.com 2011-08-29 03:12 am (UTC)(link)
I took a class or two in creative writing, which taught me that academic and journalistic writing bring much quicker gratification to me. :-) Ahh. Audience is everything. Audience is why we have words. Your questions drew me to the somewhat embarrassing realization that my writing is just a slightly matured form of a baby's cry: I'm not hungry. I'm not wet. I just want to be picked up and held. If there's nobody reading, I will not write. I can quilt or read or cook.

I have become accustomed to the post-writing crash in which I am convinced that I have written the most revolting, belly-crawling garbage and have perpetrated a violence against humankind in releasing it publicly. I've learned to expect and ignore it. :-P Whatever. There's also the fear of a mob coming to beat me to death for having been grossly obvious in my writing, which is rather more alarming. I am certain that these discomforts would be exponentially greater if I wrote fiction, which leads to my policy of bludgeoning plot bunnies without mercy. I do have a bunny or two who is so insistent that I may join the cult of "I wanted to read this story, so I had to write it," and if that happens, I expect full-blown neurosis as I realize I must learn humiliatingly basic fiction skills and cannot aspire to more than mediocrity. I don't know why you fiction writers keep grinning maniacally and urging the rest of us to give it a try.

[identity profile] juniperus.livejournal.com 2011-08-29 03:17 am (UTC)(link)
So. Why do you write?

I don't know. I've always had stories in my head... usually I would draw, as a child, but I read like crazy (poetry and prose). In my early 20s I dabbled in poetry, largely to sort out my emotions. Strange for someone who, from adolescence on, was too shy to attempt to tell their stories in front of an audience... the series of accidents that lead to my having to take a leadership role in a religious community was one that lead to my having to face my anxieties about being seen and deal with some of those inner voices... which I faced again in academic and with academiblogging. And eventually, not that many years ago, I finally decided that I needed to pull a story--words, feelings, thoughts--from my head. I was petrified. But the stories didn't stop bubbling up (whether prompted or unbidden)--although stress certainly mutes them considerably, and keeps me from accessing the images I'm describing (I'm primarily visual... that's why I write vignettes, I'm actually recording what I see and hear in the story as it unfolds) or the words to describe them--and honestly... after the grief of losing the academic identity I'd had, I don't think I had enough energy to be afraid or being seen, anymore.

So, I write sometimes. It's a different creative process than when I'm working in clay. I've decided that I don't need to know the answer to 'Why?' ...it's the sort of self-doubting torture I've subjected myself to for years. I'm pretty sick of it.

How did you learn to write? What do you feel you're still learning to do?

I didn't. Rather, not fiction. I took a writing class as an undergrad, but I focused on poetry (and the instructor was... let's just say, I stopped writing for years as a result). I was an English Lit/History double major, so academic papers were non-stop - but those aren't storytelling, at least... they shouldn't be, right?

I have always learned from reading others' work, whether published or fanfic. I can tell you with certainty that I wasn't comfortable enough in my own head to take what I read and let it develop into something that was me until my mid-30s.

How much is your identity wrapped up in your writing and storytelling?

All of it and none of it. Rather... after losing myself once, I can't put myself in the position to be so broken again. I don't define myself by one thing, anymore, because I know what it feels to be bereft when that one thing is snatched away.

How much does audience play into what you do and how you do it?

I don't get read much, besides friends and the captive audience that is the Exchange. So not as much as for others, I suspect. I write primarily for me, even when I'm writing to prompt.

What makes certain stories shine (yours or others) in your eyes?

Reaching a point in characterization, a level of understanding I didn't have before I started the story, that feels like progress, or a journey taken, or... I don't know that I can put into words, honestly.



I'm tired and need to go to bed - so I'll finish tomorrow morning. :)

[identity profile] ferporcel.livejournal.com 2011-08-29 03:30 am (UTC)(link)
Why do I write...? I don't know. Sometimes I think I know, but then I don't anymore. I have no idea where I learned to write, since I never had classes or even read much. It makes writing anything a learning experience of huge proportions. Maybe I do it for the learning.

I don't think I get the identity question. I'm not sure who I am, what's mine, what's not. It's hard to understand where the stories come from. They're not related to me, although I'm the one writing them. Okay, I'll be honest, I don't think the stories I write are mine at all. Maybe that's why fantasy is the genre I chose.

Audience was not a part of writing at first, but as the audience grew, I felt responsible for their reaction to my writing. I really feel responsible for the emotions my stories bring up for the readers, which became somehow a burden at some point. I write very carefully these days, very conscious of the eyes on me. I don't think I like all the responsibility I feel. I don't know if I'd still be writing if it wasn't for the commitment I made to myself and the respect I have for the readers. As you can see, this reader-writer relationship is all very complicated for me.

The best part of a story for me is the characters and the impossible situations they get themselves in. That's why I enjoy Severus so much. It's all about the impossible situations he can get into. Everything is a challenge for him, from romance to family to friendship to the mundane. The talent in the storytelling, then, is in making it all believable and honest and complex and...

When I finish a project, I want to to share my joy of having made it to my satisfaction. I don't really expect feedback, although it's nice to know what others feel when they see or read what I've drawn or wrote. I get serious feedback as a learning opportunity, so I end up giving more attention to criticism than to praise. I don't know what will happen when I finish writing my main story, though. It think it'll be very different from finishing the other projects. I hope I don't get too sad...

I know why I started writing, but I don't know why I keep doing this. Besides the one story, all the rest was to join in fandom activities, to be a part of it, and not really for the writing or drawing experience. Nathan's story is the exception, and I write it because I felt it was a story I could tell. It existed (in a way) before the fandom. It could be my first and last attempt at writing (because all the other stories I've written are not really important to me), or it could be the starting of something bigger.

Bigger is scary, though. Fandom is big enough already. A writer is not made of a single story, right? That's a big problem, then.

Aren't we contemplative today? LOL

[identity profile] anonymous-plume.livejournal.com 2011-08-29 03:48 am (UTC)(link)
There are a number of writers in the Sherlock fandom and in HP whose stories I'll read and then think, "I'll never write again. Why bother?"

This. Like, every day.

Does anybody else get this crash after finishing a big or otherwise important (to you) story? Does anybody know why it happens? YES. Very much so. It's like, a pattern. Hope when you go into it, thinking you've learned more since "the last one" and "I can do it!" And then it'll start out promising, and I'll think "Hey, not bad." Then I'll re-read it and just... sink. Because it's not like I had imagined at. all., and then there's the a quick self-doubt, and I'll pull myself back up and think, "I'll get it later, or polish more. Get the bones and move on." Repeat, repeat until the end. Flail and agonize when I'm "done" because omfg how could I ever think any of this was any good? But, it still feels good while in the moment, and writing and thinking, and forcing myself to do a thing and finish. (finishing is always touch and go with me. big surprise.) Then, yeah, I'll read others and do that "Oh, God, I'll never write again."

And yet, I still have the urge to, regardless. :/

Does anybody else wonder why they do this and feel like they've just ripped off their skin and are waiting for the world's approval/approvation/rejection/indifference every time they post something? *sigh* Yes. Yes. And yes.
Edited 2011-08-29 03:48 (UTC)

[identity profile] droxy.livejournal.com 2011-08-29 04:44 am (UTC)(link)
Being a beginner is exploration! It is something new. Writing was new. Cosplay was new. make up was and remains new. Sewing is still new. Digital art will probably keep me occupied for a decade!

Yes, doing something well matters. When i don't I find I am not happy with the end result. This happens with me regarding phtographs and art. I find I do not like what I've done earlier. This is probably the same with fic writers.

Does it get wrapped up in who I hoped I might be. I suppose. But I beleive a made a good decision in being practical. Most folks who do what we do as a hobby for a living often have day jobs. They cannot make a living wage at it. (e.g. composing music, writing fic, photography, sewing, acting, art, crafts...) All of this, and what we do is simply another form of a labor of love. What is ultimately important is we find joy in what we do, because if we don't it is death by 10000 mosquitos.

I havent tried that interface. They require some setting up. Not sure what level of memory hog they are.

[identity profile] voxangelus.livejournal.com 2011-08-29 04:47 am (UTC)(link)
So. Why do you write?
The easier question would be why wouldn't I write? I have a desire to see my words on paper. To engage in a relatively harmless form of fantasy fulfillment. I have things to say, stories to tell, how can I not write? Much of it doesn't make it to the light of day, admittedly - but as it says on my TPP profile, writing helps keep me sane.

How did you learn to write? What do you feel you're still learning to do?
I don't know that I ever did learn to write. I took a year of creative writing my senior year of high school since I needed a class and it's what was available in my schedule, but I'd been writing, drawing, telling and making up stories since I was a small child. My freshman year of high school, two of my friends and I wrote TWO epic novels together. I found one of them recently and they were atrocious, LOL! But gosh, we had fun. We based the characters in one of them on our group of friends, and the other was original, based on the lives of a cast of characters in a production of Phantom of the Opera. I'm still learning how to plot, and pace, and make whole characters and not abuse commas. I'm sure I'll be learning that forever!

How much is your identity wrapped up in your writing and storytelling?
Well, let me put it this way. I have never, ever, NOT thought of myself as a writer.

How much does audience play into what you do and how you do it?
Oh, I'd like my audience to like the stuff I put into the public eye! I'd love to finish the novel I'm working on and submit it for publication and have it sell like gangbusters. But the writing that never sees the light of day? That's for me. Nobody else needs to see it, or like it, or approve of it.

What makes certain stories shine (yours or others) in your eyes? What do you look for in a story? What draws you to read certain stories or certain writers?
I just want to stay interested. Sometimes it's the setting that gets me. Sometimes I've read an entire awful series b/c I fell in love with a minor character and must know what happened to them. I can cope with trite prose if the plot and story suck me in. I am NOT a book snob. I read Twilight. I liked it for what it was.

Does anybody else get this crash after finishing a big or otherwise important (to you) story? Does anybody know why it happens? LOL
I've never finished a big story yet, sigh.

Does anybody else wonder why they do this and feel like they've just ripped off their skin and are waiting for the world's approval/approvation/rejection/indifference every time they post something?
Yes. Yes. A thousand times, yes.

[identity profile] blueartemis07.livejournal.com 2011-08-29 05:10 am (UTC)(link)
I was a reader then a reader and reviewer here in fanfiction. But I've always written. I have dozens of unfinished stories and outlines. My college roommate and I were going to write a series of Harlequin Novels based on an acapella group at a university after they left and grew up... Yeah. We plotted them out on the drive from Los Angeles to Stanford every vacation.

I'm writing because of Annie. She kept encouraging me. All those Crookshanks drabbles? Yeah.

I was writing for me for the most part. I made friends here, and it was a big part of keeping sane and not depressed. But some people liked my writing.

This is interesting because today I had two different reviewers, those who had not reviewed before (I was offering a drabble and it got people to answer me) tell me that they were giving me a very broad prompt because they really liked my writing. I felt validated.

Yes, there is a crash. Maybe it is a lot like post-partum depression. This big thing you were creating and is part of you is gone, out there for the word to judge.

I have found that I like reading my reviews... but they don't matter to me as much as I thought. I am pleased that people like what I write, but I don't know that my identity is tied up in it.

The stories that shine for me? They have something unique to offer, their characters grow even if it is completely against canon. (I love redeeming those Slytherins). As for published fiction, again it has to draw me in. Recently I read the Hunger Games Trilogy and was in one of those "reading, don't talk to me" modes. I haven't done that in a while.

I like to see someone's take on an idea, whether it is dystopia, Marriage Law, etc. I prefer a happy or hopeful ending, because life is difficult enough.

[identity profile] kribu.livejournal.com 2011-08-29 06:44 am (UTC)(link)
What a fascinating topic - and one that I keep coming back to, myself, and wonder.

I wrote stories as a child - not often, but when we had to write something in class, I'd find my imagination soaring and that I could come up with wonderful, imaginative, absurd, fantastical tales, be it an epic poem about an olympic hero who gets torn to pieces by the adoring crowds, or a story about an alien melting away in a hot tram, or a poem dedicated to the awesomeness of mathematics (that one won me things, books and prizes and stuff). I even had my first poem published in the national children's magazine when I was seven.

But that was then, and then I grew up, and life happened. And I didn't write a single word of fiction for a very long time - 15 years, I think, between my last bit of creative writing (which was an angsty and very personal short story about unrequited love, which I never showed anyone), and my first drabble in the SSHG fandom.

Why do I do it? It's a good question. In the SSHG fandom, I think it was a mixture of wanting to write again (wanting, not necessarily being driven to) and wanting to belong, wanting to be a bigger part of this community, and I didn't feel like "just" reading was enough. I'd read so much awesome stuff - I wanted to try my hand at it, too. But it was scary, and hard, and ... well, scary. I think it's why I stuck strictly to drabbles for a long time - it gave me boundaries, restrictions; having the 100 word limit to stick to (even in drabble series) gave me a safety net of sorts. Which I don't think I've ever really put to words before now, and I'm not even sure it makes sense...

I suppose a lot of my SSHG writing still has to do with wanting to be a part of the community - apart from a handful of drabbles and a couple of shorter things, everything SSHG that I've written has been written to prompts (gifts or otherwise) or challenges. I wonder sometimes if it's because I've read hundreds if not thousands of fics in this fandom and therefore find it difficult to come up with anything remotely original myself, or if it's just that I write SSHG to share, to an audience, not just because I need to.

And that - not being able to write other than to other people's prompts - has bothered me. Could I only come up with words, but not the ideas? It's something I've spent quite a bit of time wondering about.

So in that sense, after all those years in SSHG, falling head first into another fandom (sort of; not much fandom in a community sense to speak of with Skulduggery Pleasant), was eye-opening. Liberating. I realised I wanted to write. I had to write. There was little out there to draw upon, and there's not nearly the audience that there is with SSHG (not that I've ever had a huge audience outside my LJ circle of friends and the exchange, but that's huge compared to all of the SP fandom), but I've needed to write. Without prompts. Without challenges. All my SP fic has been written because I've not been able to not write it. Because there are stories I've wanted to see happen, and no one else has written them, or not in such a way, and so I've had no choice but to write them myself.

So ... er, long comment is long enough already, isn't it?

I still don't know why I really write. It's excruciatingly difficult at times. I hate my writing. I can't read it after I've written something. I wibble (oh god do I wibble). I want acceptance, but I'm afraid of it, too. I need to get it out there, away from me, as soon as I can, and then I wibble some more. I want comments, and I don't want them, because I'm scared of what they'll say.

Although I have to say that this need for acceptance has decreased a bit over the years ... and it seems to be fandom-dependant, too - I don't need it nearly the same way with my SP fic, which I write largely for myself, as I do with SSHG. It's odd, really, now that I think about it.

And yeah, there is a post-story crash, especially after the longer ones, such as the SSHG exchange fics. I've found it very hard to get back into writing something else after finishing each of my exchange fics, so I've tried to at least write a few random drabbles at some point just to avoid getting another six month block.

[identity profile] irisbleufic.livejournal.com 2011-08-29 09:09 am (UTC)(link)
The story of how I began writing is a huge joke, really: from toddlerhood through my mid-teens, I was under the delusion I was going to be an artist (no, really). I could sketch a little bit more than competently, but when it came to applying color to anything - paint, pastels, you name it - I had no knack whatsoever. I consistently ruined everything and only just got mediocre grades on my art projects in school. I recognized that many of my peers were far more talented than I was, so I actually made the conscious decision to stop wasting my time on visual art and try writing. I didn't even attempt writing as such till I was fourteen, and even then, it was all poetry up until I was about eighteen (I started writing prose relatively late). I learned to write by reading, I think, which I did voraciously. Reading a wide variety of books and genres and forms is a better training battery than any creative writing course (at the university level, by which time I had a pretty good idea that my grasp on writing in terms of having defined my own style was, if not more than decent, certainly reasonably good, I took a couple of creative writing courses and they did nothing but frustrate me to no end; they didn't teach me anything about myself or my process that I didn't already know).

I wonder what compels me to spend hours and hours each week struggling with images and voices and story, especially when there is no lack of absolutely brilliant stuff out there already

Please don't laugh when I say this, but: I do know the feeling. There are two or three fandoms in which I might have ended up writing over the years (Due South and Kevin Smith's Askewniverse in particular) if I had not found the kind of fiction I wanted to see, but there were so many excellent things already there that I considered spot-on that I was actually content not to write. It's a rare treat for me to want to just sit back and do nothing but read. Sherlock is an exceptional fandom in that, if I had come to it later than I did (I think I was in the first wave of people who started writing as the show aired, so there was nothing to scare me off the attempt), I might've wondered what the fuck the point was. However, the good news here is that we have so many question marks to work with that I don't think backing down is the right decision; there's much more room for interpretation than usual.

[identity profile] sunnythirty3.livejournal.com 2011-08-29 11:19 am (UTC)(link)
You raise some interesting questions. Reading the replies leaves me feeling rather lightweight LOL.


Why do you write? No deep and meaningful reason. I've always made up stories in my head, and it's fun sharing them and seeing what people think, good or bad.


How did you learn to write?

Writing referral letters about people to specialists for 25 years is a bit like telling little stories. You need to convey all the important bits succinctly without wandering off topic. That was good practice. Reading a large variety of genres helped, and Karelia taught me the rest.

What do you feel you're still learning to do?

I'm still at the simple linear story stage. Weaving together something more complex and multifaceted than I've done before would be cool.

How much is your identity wrapped up in your writing and storytelling?

Not much, really. My personality tends to show through in the dialogue and the humour.

How much does audience play into what you do and how you do it?

A huge amount. I write to entertain people, make them laugh, occasionally make them cry, or even make them melt. I like to leave readers wanting to know what happens next. I need no catharsis, self-therapy, or validation. I never write without showing someone. To me, that would be like performing in a play to an empty theatre.

On the other hand, if someone doesn't like something I write, I don't get all bent out of shape. Everyone's taste is different, after all. I love reading/writing reviews and receiving/replying to reviews. It's all about the interaction with other people. I saw the way reviewers and authors interacted on TPP, and I just wanted in on the party!

What makes certain stories shine (yours or others) in your eyes?

Some people write the most beautiful prose. I am in absolute awe of their skill, but, to be honest, I read this style only occasionally. My job involves a lot of serious stuff and the constant need to make decisions which potentially could be life-threatening if incorrect. I want my reading to have enough depth to be a decent plot, but not take itself too seriously. So the stories that shine are those with a captivating plot, good characterisation, and at least a little humour.

What do you look for in a story? Above, good writing, and reasonable SPaG. Karelia has spoiled me by teaching me grammar and punctuation! :P Poorly edited stories annoy the crap out of me.

What draws you to read certain stories or certain writers?

Previous experience with that writer. Knowing the writer. Recommendations from others.

Does anybody else get this crash after finishing a big or otherwise important (to you) story? Does anybody know why it happens?

I just feel relieved! Time to think up the next one.

Does anybody else wonder why they do this and feel like they've just ripped off their skin and are waiting for the world's approval/approvation/rejection/indifference every time they post something?

Er... no. My stories are just stories. :D
ext_22302: (Default)

[identity profile] ivyblossom.livejournal.com 2011-08-29 11:30 am (UTC)(link)
So. Why do you write?
I write because I enjoy it. I'm happiest when I'm writing, as it turns out. I'm fine when I'm not writing too, because I also really love my work and throw myself into it body and soul, but I'm definitely happiest when there's some writing in there too. Not exclusively though (I think having nothing to do but writing sounds good at first, but after a few weeks it would drive me mad).

How did you learn to write?
I've been writing as long as I can remember. I've always been into words. I guess I always figured I would write something eventually, without giving it a ton of thought. So I learned a bit that way. But I learned the most through fandom. I learned how to punctuate dialogue through the feedback on my very first (TERRIBLE) fic in my first fandom (HP). I learned a ton through fandom, I don't think I can even articulate how much I learned from fandom, really. Everything I write, I learn something.

What do you feel you're still learning to do?
Everything. I feel like I'm at the beginning of a process that will last the rest of my life. I've learned so much from fandom, so now I'm learning from writing novels that very few people will ever see. I didn't think working in such relative isolation would be as satisfying as writing in fandom, but it actually is, strangely. I don't really know why, but I'm enjoying myself.

How much is your identity wrapped up in your writing and storytelling?
I'm not sure it is, at the moment. I'm kind of afraid of that, because I know how fickle it is. Mostly I identify as a librarian, and I like to write, but I don't tend to think of myself as a writer. I don't like the word "writer," it feels too...prescriptive, somehow. And I know too many people who will only accept the term "writer" if what you're writing is something that gets published. I don't know if I'll ever publish anything or not. Maybe I will, eventually. Once I iron out all the details and learn how to do this well. Then the identity question might get more difficult, because more people I know would expect it of me and associate me with it. At the moment I talk about it as a my hobby and I like it that way.

How much does audience play into what you do and how you do it?
It doesn't, really. Well, not deliberately, anyway. As I said, I can only write things that I love. Otherwise I get bored and frustrated. I can't really write to order. So I avoid prompts, though I can see how prompt culture could be very useful. Ideas are rarely something I lack (I generally have an array of ideas to choose from without looking to the ideas of others). I love having an audience though, it's fun and motivating for me, and I love the conversations that arise from it. I've learned a lot from people's reactions. I think I'm like a golden retriever that way: I learn mostly from positive reinforcement, what clearly resonates with other people, and gently guess what people like less and why. I'm probably gravitating toward what works best without thinking about it much at all. I love people and I love meeting people and finding out about them and their opinions. Fandom's great that way. Feedback is great, I've learned tons from it, but I can't quite bring myself to consciously write based on what I think an audience will enjoy. I've been accused of being "mainstream" in the past, and while that hurt the intellectual special snowflake in me at first, I accept that it's pretty true. The things that resonate deeply with me are not unique or unusual, but I write things like that because it resonates with me, not because I think it will be popular. I fear extreme fandom popularity, actually. Bit of a fine line: I like getting feedback, but I don't like being under the microscope of BNFdom. I thought I would miss the audience while writing original fiction, and in a way I did. But surprisingly, a handful of friends reading along had generally the same effect. Who knew!

More..

Edited 2011-08-29 11:36 (UTC)
ext_22302: (Default)

[identity profile] ivyblossom.livejournal.com 2011-08-29 11:30 am (UTC)(link)
[cont, I ran over the comment word limit, oops]

What makes certain stories shine (yours or others) in your eyes? What do you look for in a story? What draws you to read certain stories or certain writers?
Emotional authenticity, I think. It's the "write what you know" thing, but on an emotional level. People who connect back to the characters on an emotional level, so that reactions feel like they're coming from a real place. I'm also a fan of straight-up good writing, simple word choices, a light touch. I don't have a light touch myself, I know that, I have the touch of a million hammers, so I admire lightly-written but powerful work. Spareness.

Does anybody else get this crash after finishing a big or otherwise important (to you) story? Does anybody know why it happens? LOL
YES. So far I've felt this mostly with fanfiction. I didn't feel it so much when I finished my original first draft, not as much. SO now I wonder if it's related to writing serially in public for me. I don't know! I feel it terribly with fanfiction. I mourn a story when I'm done with it, because I can never go back. Maybe because so few people have seen the original fiction first draft, and because I know I have to go back to it and learn how to edit properly, and I know I will go back, but I don't feel it noticeably at all with original fiction. I don't feel like I'm saying goodbye to those people yet. Probably because I do in fact have a ton more work to do there. I guess I don't really have first drafts in fanfiction. I just write and post. It feels great to do that, but it's really DONE once it's posted like that. There's no going back.

Does anybody else wonder why they do this and feel like they've just ripped off their skin and are waiting for the world's approval/approvation/rejection/indifference every time they post something?
Hahaha! Hmmmm not really. I mean, I'm curious about reaction when I post, and I love to see reaction (as a human being, kind of inevitable), but I don't think I feel as vulnerable about it as some people do. But that's probably related to the identity question. At the moment, honestly, if I write something that I really love, and it goes out into the world and other people love it too, that's gratifying, but I have written other things that have been far less loved and I'm okay with that too. I enjoy the process too much to wish those stories away. I learned from them, I enjoyed them. Mostly that's enough, frankly.

I used to be terrified of concrit though. Truly terrified. It made my stomach turn. I think I had too many eggs in that basket, like my value as a human being was caught up in that particular piece of writing. I've been breaking through that in recent years, partially because I'm just older, I suspect, and because I love my job and I'm pretty good at it, and because I've come back around to writing again not because I need it to fulfill me or justify my existence, but because I just honestly enjoy it.

Interesting questions!!

[identity profile] morganstuart.livejournal.com 2011-08-29 01:02 pm (UTC)(link)
I tend to agree with J.R.R. Tolkien's assessment in his essay "On Fairy-Stories" that humans are hard-wired to be creators or sub-creators, and we're at our best when we're in the act of creation. Writing seems like a fundamental part of that, for those so inclined. It's in our nature.

There are a number of writers in the Sherlock fandom and in HP whose stories I'll read and then think, "I'll never write again. Why bother?"

Having heard two of my favorite living professional authors admit to the same kinds of self-doubt when reading their favorite authors, I assume that's something most writers never outgrow. (Or maybe I'm just telling myself that because I suffer the very same pangs, and I can't seem to overcome them!) I do know this, though: even the very best writer can only convey what's in her/his head. The best writers I know are also voracious readers, because they crave the stories that live in other people's heads. They already know theirs, backwards and forwards. So you or I might not be able to write the same tales as Person X, but Person X couldn't write what you or I do. I think we undervalue what's in our own imagination, because it tends to feel obvious or self-evident to us. It's not to anyone else, though. That's the joy of it all.

The question of audience is a really interesting one. I write different things for different reasons, but fanfic has always been for me about either "fixing" things I'd like changed/completed/seen through to their conclusions or, more often than not, exploring the ellipses between the canonical scenes. I've loved many series/franchises, but I've only been moved to write in a few, and then I couldn't help myself from wanting to tinker (a bit like seeing a wall where 90% of the paint is up, and you're just compelled to finish that bare spot). For example, before Sherlock, I went nine years without writing fanfic at all, though I did write/publish other non-fiction and fiction. When I did feel moved to write Sherlock, I had to think a long time before deciding to share any of my stories.

I'm so old and decrepit (ha!) that I wrote fanfic back in the days of print 'zines, for which feedback was colossally slow if it came at all. The internet has changed that landscape in a remarkable way and made feedback almost instantaneous and plentiful, and this certainly is rewarding and exciting (not to mention supremely helpful - invaluable, really - for those of us who want to improve our storytelling, to know what works for readers), but I don't know that it affects/changes the original impulse to write.

Wow, I'm uncertain if any of that was on-topic or not. Thanks for initiating this discussion, though. It's wonderfully thought-provoking.
Edited 2011-08-29 13:12 (UTC)

Page 1 of 4